The Space Between Us: Forgiveness
This weekend Scott Hatfield will be back with us. You may remember Scott because he has shared with us before. We’re excited to have Scott back with us as he and his team prepare for the launch of Resonate Church in Bonney Lake.
This is from Scott to prepare us for his teaching this weekend:
Some of the hardest words on the planet are the words, “I forgive you.” There is a great spiritual cancer than can consume a heart and life. That spiritual cancer is the spirit of unforgiveness. The culture that we find ourselves in is a culture of cut them off, freeze them out and make them pay! Jesus knew of this culture so He spoke much on this specific cancer because he has seen the depth of its devastation. It ruins relationships, it destroys marriages and families, it shrivels hearts until all joy, grace, and life is wrung from it. There is no greater way that we can illustrate God’s activity in our lives is when we preserve, guard and cultivate the space between us. I want to challenge you this week to ask the Holy Spirit to open up your heart and reveal anything that is not of Him that is in that space between.
God’s desire is that we are whole. Whole regardless of what we’ve done or what’s been done to us. The purpose of the cross is to redeem all our broken parts and put us back together again better, stronger, and more whole than ever before. Paul speaks of guarding this wholeness in Ephesians 4:31-32. “Get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as Christ forgave you.” In guarding the space between us we must remember what was done to protect the space between us and God. How forgiven by God are we? Completely & totally…past, present & future…it is finished-kind of forgiveness. That’s the measure of grace that we have received. It is that same measure that we must use to forgive one another.
I look forward to spending time with you this upcoming weekend. Come ready to hear from Christ and be challenged to live whole lives!
Post your thoughts and comments HERE!
July 25th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Greetings to the Pathways Community with blessings in spirit and health.
How important is forgiveness? Not very, if looked at through the eyes of many who walk this small planet, regardless of calling themselves religious or if they even believe in God. Mostly motivated by self this world believes it has the right to hold contempt and malice towards one another. This is a natural course of the labor of sin and a bible reader knows the wages of such labor—Death.
To choose life one must choose to forgive. To love as they are being loved—so much, a begotten Son was set aside from His crown and life as God to take upon himself the pains and humility of our sins, past present and future. He encompassed a world of humility, pain and suffering, as one could never imagine. Yet He met His mark with pride in doing the will of His Father. It took an effort, as illustrated by blood sweating from the body of our precious Savior in His knowledge of what was to come. Yes, this blood was shed for the trials of what He was about to go through (hang on a cross), but I believe more so for the foreknowledge of what this world was to become in spit of His selfless efforts. For the harden hearts of brother against brother, for all the unforgiveness which existed and was yet to come, as unforgiveness is the absolute fuel for sin.
If a belief in the God of Creation is apparent in so many, as they proclaim themselves to be Christians, then why is there so much unforgiveness in this world today? Does it involve self? If God is supreme of all and forgives so freely (but not without a price paid) then is not the unforgiveness making the unforgiver better than God?
I have heard the question asked as to why Jesus’ ministry was so short, 3 and a half years. First—was not His entire life, from infant, lying in the manger, to the blood stained body hanging on the cross, to the glorious resurrection, His ministry. Second—is not this ministry working today through those who, as scripture states, proclaim the name of Jesus and keep His commandments? These commandments can be summed up in 2, the Royal Law, to Love God with your entirety and then to love your fellow man as God so loves you. Love and unforgiveness cannot coexist.
Looking to the empty cross allows faith (a saving faith), which saves into the kingdom yet to come, and looking to the cross, as Christ hung there, asking with His last breath the God of creation to FORGIVE THEM as they know not what they do, allows this faith to be seen! The bible says Christ’s own are known by the love they show for one another.
Forgiveness is not only imperative as a genuine Christian, it is also an honor and privilege in proclaiming the promises of eternal life. It is part of the way Jesus’ ministry is continued today.
James 3: 17-18
17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
And to God the glory!!
July 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Hello again.
I was thinking of this week’s topic some more, and realized that as God is Love then that which makes up love must be what makes up God. The formula—reason of Jesus’ earthly habitation—God’s love is made of key ingredients; humility, selflessness, and forgiveness, from these, love is created.
This is the motivational love, which fed Jesus on His trek among sinners loving them by healing and forgiving them of sins past, present and into the future. It is the glue, which bonds believers through the space between. The cushion, as to say, which, absorbs the bluntness of all infractions and gives the hope of promises made.
As proclaimed Christians (followers of Christ) there can be no unforgiveness as it would dilute the Love God has for us and through us to those the believer is to be witness to. Forgiveness starts on the side of the believer as God first forgave each by grace through their faith in Jesus. One must believe they are forgiven then it becomes easier to pass this forgiveness on. As Jesus said, you are healed, go and sin no more, which includes unforgiveness to all.
Thank you Lord for Your strength in doing so…
July 26th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Forgiveness has always been very hard for me to do and I struggle with it on a daily basis. Do you need to be asked for forgiveness in order to forgive? If not, how do you do it? I’m willing to listen to any opinion offered!!!
July 26th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
First of all, I am sure it was much easier for Jesus to forgive all of the sinners because even though he was in human form, he was the son of God, and as such – love and grace personified. Second of all, the sinners that came to him where completely filled with gilt and remorse, and felt that if they even touched his robe they would be healed! Is it not much more difficult to forgive people, who by definition of their job as a parent should have done anything to protect you from harm, but instead threw you in front of a moving train, and then denied having any recollection? What about people that you have forgiven that continue to hurt you in every way they can because they know that you as a Christian are obligated to forgive them? Things are not always so neat and tidy in the fallen world in which we live.
July 26th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
I think, Barb, forgiveness is hard for everyone to give and we all struggle with this issue. I don’t think..and this is just my personal opinion from my own life experiences…..that forgiveness does not have to be asked for. Ex. In my previous church staff position and all the trauma and hurt that situation caused me no one has asked for my forgiveness……..However……..I knew that to be mentally emotionally and spiritually healthy I HAD to let go and forgive the offenders and the offenses.Not for them …..BUT FOR ME…….So that I could be right with God and move forward.
The offending person may be deceased or severely mentally physically disabled or for some reason unable to communicate that request.
Same situation with my parents……I HAD to forgive….did it happen over night……..NO!!
It took years to let all of that go and forgive.
As I have practiced the gift of forgiveness…. and look at my own need for forgiveness from others …. the realities of the need for me to forgive and the length of time it takes me to forgive did get shorter and shorter.
How do you do it? To even attempt to answer your question I may sound very simplistic.The ONLY way I could… and can ….forgive is to ask the Lord for RESSURECTION POWER to forgive the person or the offense. In my own strength there is just no way I can do it. But I have had enough experience with this prayer to know that with HIS strength I can forgive. And I stand on my faith that my God can and does work miracles. I know this to be true because I know the miracle that has taken place in my own life. I am living proof that God can and does give to us what we ask. I asked for a heart of forgiveness for certain people and offenses and HE honored that prayer.I have every confidence he will honor my prayers again if I am humble enough( their in lies the key..because my pride gets in the way) to ask for HIS guidance wisdom and strength in this area.
I think another key is our mental attitude and heart….both areas of my life that needed a major change. (and a check up often) A question I ask myself (quite often) is am I willing to lay down my right( to my anger …my pride.. my position.. my martyrdom .. my need to be right….in a given situation) Am I willing to let go and not let the offense fester and boil over or spread like a cancer.Forgiveness takes all that junk out of my life.
Without forgiveness, for me, there is no peace. And I am at an age and stage in my life where I desire and need peace. I often think if I don’t forgive …..was the work of the cross in vain or invalid.And that thought just breaks my heart!
Now having said all of that….I must say …..We can forgive with the help of the Holy Spirit.Does that mean we always have to be bosom buddies or invite the offenders to Sunday dinner…NO….I don’t think in all cases that is wise. I think we need healthy boundaries.
We are commanded to forgive… We are told to forgive others as we have been forgiven.Can we do no less than what has been done for us?
Practicing forgiveness for others also makes it much easier for me to ask for forgiveness when I have hurt someone or offended.(which I have made some major offenses in my life time!!!)
This may help or it may not make any sense at all. I just know that a miracle took place in my life when I began to forgive and ask the Lord to bless those who needed forgivness.
Jan
July 27th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Hello Barb,
I hope this finds you and family doing well.
Please do not misunderstand this note, as I read from you an invitation of opinion, and that is all this is—opinion. However I have lived a long (so far) life and have experienced many trials and opportunities on its path to exercise forgiveness, both to myself and to those involved with me.
At the beginning I needed to forgive an unknown mother who had left me with a baby sitter at the very early age of 2 months. I grew up not knowing if I could be loved—if a mother does not love her child where possibly could a person find love. Being passed from foster home to foster home, as no family member found it in his or her heart to love me enough to take me in. This brought about the question—was I worthy of love—could anyone love ME!?
It was as if fate itself gave opportunity for me to steal a bible while attending a Catholic School, as I had asked Sister Jude and Father Burke what this book was about (it had a drawing value to me as if it was inviting me to read it), but I was told it was a book of prayer and had nothing to do with me. Thus, reason for the larceny, which I soon, too soon, was reprimanded for, and the book taken away. It was, however, in the brief time of having this Living Testament of Love and Selflessness that I discovered someone who did love me and without condition. Jesus Christ.
At this point I dedicated my life to know and relationship with Him, this man, Person-God, of whom I knew nothing of, yet He offered me His unconditional love. This started my affair with scripture. Now as time and many revolutions of the earth around the sun have past, I am assured through this wonderful book, the Bible, that I know nothing.
If I know nothing, I do know this. Unforgiveness steals the life out of the unforgiver and can be illustrated by something I once saw on the Discovery channel. There was this group of scientists who wanted to study monkeys, but first they needed to capture them. So they adhered boxes onto trees. These boxes had a small hole, just large enough for the monkey to put their hand into. Inside the boxes were nuts, something the monkeys really liked. But when they reached in and grabed a nut they could not extract their hand and were easily caught by the scientists.
We see here a simple solution—just let go of the nut and remove the hand, but the monkey refused to release the nut. The monkeys life in the free jungle to live life as intended was over. What kept the monkey’s fist clenched, so much, he lost his freedom? I see self-satisfaction here, in such a great magnitude that it blinds common behavior.
Unforgiveness does the same thing to humans, as it was the primary objective of Christ’s ministry—to FORGIVE. And today we as believing sinners have warrant through the righteousness of Jesus of forgiveness and opportunity to forgive as He exampled us to do. He will even supply the power, the strength and the relief of forgiving others if He is given opportunity to, by your request. As scripture states, much comes from the power of fervent prayer, it worketh much. But what empowers this transformation is letting it go. Release the nut and pull your hand out! Continue on with life as God so intended being forgiven and forgiving others in the name of Jesus!
July 27th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Barb,
A simple ( I am into simple at this stage of life!!!) way to think about all this is
Forgiveness = Freedom
Unforgiveness = Bondage.
I think what Ron said is true. We have to let go……even the most horrible and cruel of offenses….to experience true freedom. And once we do that then there is no going back.We’ve tasted freedom and it is sweet.I was in bondage to too many things ( including unforgiveness and anger) for way too long to ever want to go back to that state again.I guess what you have to ask yourself is “Am I really ready to let go?” And once I let go ” what will replace this void I have held onto for so long?” You will replace it with the “PEACE that passes all understanding” and freedom in Christ to pass along your story.God Bless my friend.
July 27th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Wow! I love the response I got from all of you. O.K., so here’s another question to offer your wonderful opinions on: If in fact you have forgiven someone without them asking-do you then TELL them that they have been forgiven? Bear in mind that they may not even be aware that they were in need for forgiveness.. Yes, Mary Ann, it does get very complicated in the real world. Thanks for your insight and answers.
July 27th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Well, here are some thoughts…
I don’t think there is an easy answer. Sometimes people hurt us, we forgive them, and we never tell them. Sometimes people hurt us, we forgive them, and we tell them. Sometime as Jan mentioned death or other circumstance will prevent us from telling them. Other times, it may just cause more pain to say anything (sometimes we just have to be the ones to hurt so others don’t have to, I know I’ll get some disagreement on that, it’s just my opinion today). Yet other times, it may help to make a relationship stronger to tell a person we forgive them. I think it depends on the situation. I think that God will give us the strength to do what we need to do when the time is right if we are pursuing God’s heart…
July 27th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Andy
I actually agree with everything you said. And you said it so eloquently.
I also agree with the concept of making every decision a matter of prayer before we speak ( or not speak) to an individual about this issue. God will not only give us the strength but provide every door to open for the time place and date as well as prepare the recipients heart.
what in the world am I doing on a blog when I am going to be Mother of the Bride in 2 weeks!!!!!
Seriously I felt this subject too important (especially for you Barb) to ignore.
July 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
You guys are awesome! I love the discussion that is going on. I’ll throw another question in the mix while we’re at it….
What if you tell someone that you have forgiven them, and they respond with the attitude that they didn’t think they needed to ask for forgiveness in the first place? Essentially, they didn’t think they wronged you in any way.
How should we respond to that?
Discuss……
July 27th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Josh,
Scripture says seven times seventy. And thanks just a start!
July 27th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Can you forgive someone (and tell them or not tell them) but still be disappointed in them? Forgiving is healing but does a lingering disappointment in someone result in a true lack of closure or forgiveness?
July 27th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Josh, sorry for the typo, should be and that’s just a start!
Also, remember Jesus’ last words as He hung moments from death—Forgive them, they know not what they do.
If not measured against God’s standard, many will never be aware of their need to be forgiven or the need to forgive others.
Again the power of prayer is most beneficial in this matter.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
A few years ago I found myself at a place where I was faced with the need to forgive others in the face of deep hurt, and I found that I honestly didn’t know how or know what forgiveness really was. If I had not learned to forgive I would not be at Pathways, I would not be able to serve and give to others, and I would not be in a relationship with God that I could call healthy. Here is the best summary I have of what I learned.
God made us and gave us freedom to make choices, including whether to forgive, but he gave us a commandment with two parts that helps direct us. It gives us an umbrella of love to live by: Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor. Looking at forgiveness through that lens changes things because everything I do should be shaped by love of God and others….it takes me out of the situation, and puts God first.
We can try to put relationships back together, but we will fail. Failing others is a part of our human nature, forgiveness isn’t. It takes tremendous work, and it takes love. It is not a one time decision, but a series of decisions that change the way we think, believe, and act. If you truly love someone you are not going to be able to hold grudges, maintain brokenness, or do things that hurt them. If we are not choosing to forgive, then we are not choosing to love. If we are not loving others it will affect our relationships with others that we do want to have relationship with, and it will affect our relationship with God. It means we are choosing something other than love in that part of our life and heart and not choosing God’s best plan for us.
The bible is pretty clear about forgiveness, but it has some hard to swallow messages.
– Micah 7:18-19 God forgives us
– 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins God will forgive us
– Ephesians 4:32 Forgive each other as Christ forgave you
– Luke 17:3-4 If a brother sins and repents, forgive him
– Mark 11:25 Forgive so God may forgive you
– Matthew 6:12-15 If you do not forgive God will not forgive
Do we have to forgive? No. Is it in our best interest? Yes! A heart that won’t forgive is trapped in the past and can’t move forward to where God wants you to go. If we are saying we forgive but fail to love, or are historical and keep bringing things up then how are we really exhibiting forgiveness?
I don’t know of anything in the bible about forgiveness being dependent on someone asking for it, or on them receiving it when we offer it. Instead, forgiveness should be offered freely because God has already given us forgiveness. In my opinion we don’t need to tell others we forgive them, but hopefully our love will be demonstrated in a way they can see it and know that forgiveness is real.
While we are called to forgive, we are not to put ourselves in a place where we are repeatedly hurt. Proverbs 4:23 tells us to guard our heart. God wants us to be in relationship with people who honestly fail us, but not with people who are unwilling to admit and deal with those failings and seek restoration.
Forgiveness can be incredibly hard, but I have found it is much easier to do when I can see the people as someone God loves and find that heart of love for them myself.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Josh’s question: I think we still forgive. I don’t know that people have to accept our forgiveness for us to give it. It is one of those times when it is going to cost us more and hurt to do it but it must be done for our own relationship with God. For sure, it is easier said than done, but I think we must make our way through the struggle. If we are not trying to forgive, I think we can get stuck in bitterness (or at least that is what happens to me).
Alex’s question: I think that the disappointment we feel does go along with forgiveness. I think that ultimately this goes to the point of how we love people. God forgave us and loved us without the expectation of being loved back. He loved us because it is His nature to do so. God is love. If we are seeking God’s heart, I think we must move past the disappointment. I know I disappoint God daily because I don’t do what is best. He does not stop loving me or stop forgiving me because I disappoint Him. This is a hard thing, because we all have expectation that we want met. I really struggle with this because I expect a lot from myself as well as other people.
On a slightly different note, what is it about our relationships that make it easier or harder to forgive. I can think of people in my life that it would not matter what they did to me, I would forgive them (I’m not saying it would not be painful or we would not have to deal with different issues, but I would forgive them no matter what because the relationship is that important to me). It would not matter if they knew they did anything wrong or not, I probably wouldn’t even tell them because I would be willing to take the pain. Then, there are those other people. The ones that are hard for me to love. The ones that in some cases are related to me and they are hard to forgive. Everything they do is hurtful. How can you have a relationship with these people where you are willing to forgive them no matter what when you don’t what to know them? Okay, I’ve lost any point that I was trying to make, but it might be in there somewhere.
Thanks to everyone for a safe place to share thoughts…
July 27th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Andy-I just love your heart!(and the rest of you too!!) I do know you had a point in there somewhere and I did get it. It’s a wonderful question. There are people in my life too that I find it harder to forgive. As I think about it, they are family members that I did not get to choose to be in my life. I also have people in my life that I find forgiveness very easy to give-they are people that I have CHOSEN to be in relationship with. Is that the difference? I know there should be NO difference in how I feel, but honestly, there is. It is helping me to remember the teaching from Bob about how everyone has a story and we need to see them as God does. Do I do it right all the time-NO! Thank God for his A-1 sauce! Sleep good dear one-remember that when your head hits the pillow, all is well…! Love, WaMa
July 28th, 2007 at 8:56 am
First—
God, in the begging did not choose all to have as His. His people rejected Him. Thank goodness, as this opened opportunity— allowing all to come to God and be His chosen ones who will be called sons an inherit.
Second—
Scripture plainly states to love that which does not love you back!
Third—
Forgive and you will be forgiven.
Most Important—
You can do NOTHING on your own (not even faith) But ALL THINGS through Christ.
Stop trying to forgive on your own merit (effort). Give it to God to do the forgiving and all will come to pass.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Typo God not begging, should be beginning.
Sorry!
July 28th, 2007 at 10:46 am
OK Guys…you have me addicted to this conversation….I’ll put in my 2 cents worth and THEN I have to work all day on WEDDING related things.
This is only my opinion….and keep in mind I really am into simple.No deep theological thoughts for me!! There are people far wiser than me who can respond biblicly.Let’s hear it for Bob Kuest!!!!!!!!!! (GREAT TEACHER…if you didn’t catch his Relationship Study this summer you really missed out on something!!!! OK back to case in point
Alex…..my personal opinion…is yes you can still be disappointed in the actions/ behavoirs or attitudes of the offenders. BUT……….is this really grief? Grief for what could have been and what we desire in relationships. EX. my parents…yes I forgave and continue to this day to forgive them for certain offenses ….that are repeated over and over again…..I grieve for the healing that could take place in their lives so that they could enjoy the abundant life and enjoy life with their 3 daughters grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.
Grief………..how do you get through it when sometimes your heart is broken into what seems like a million pieces? There is only one way………and that is to work through it…Painful as that may be. Unresolved Grief is one of the major causes of depression.
Josh…our responsibility is to forgive.God is in charge of the responses of the individual.Takes alot of pressure off of us when we let go and let God be God to do what he does best!
One last word……this has been fun to write and read opinions. However a word of caution from Auntie Jan….. Let us not take the word of man ( or woman ) Let us ALWAYS go to the WORD OF GOD for guidance and direction.Do a word study of FORGIVENESS and follow God’s guide lines and directives.One last thing………Make everything a matter of prayer.
Now……this is it for me…MOTHER OF THE BRIDE has to work with FATHER OF THE BRIDE on “WEDDING STUFF”
jan
July 28th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Thanks everyone – great thoughts! Following up on Sherrie’s comment about it being in our best interest to forgive: My cellphone maker said it would be best if I didn’t get the thing in water. I can trust their advice or ignore it at my peril (at least at the phone’s peril). When God says to forgive, it’s because it is in our best interest. The question is, can we trust God that He loves us and knows, being our maker, what is in our best interest? ( Please don’t get the idea I have this all figured out – it’s still a hard thing to put into practice!)
August 1st, 2007 at 1:15 pm
I go away for a week of camp and the blog explodes! Maybe I should let Scott write all of the blog posts each week!
The stuff of relationships is not easy – which is why it is so central to following Jesus. If I could just go the way that came natural to me, that would be easy and it would be no different than anyone else in the world. We would all look the same. It’s only when we take the harder road, the one that requires seeking God’s heart and His power at work within us, that we look any different than the self-seeking broken relationships surrounding us.
Not easy, but beautiful – even in what feels like futile effort. It is what makes me love I Peter 4:8 – love covers a multitude of mistakes!
August 7th, 2007 at 8:21 am
This may be too late to add into the forgiveness discussion………But if you will forgive me, because I, too, was at camp for a week, followed by Orcas for a week.
I don’t have much to add……but in regards to Alex’s question about disappointment and in addition to Jan’s response to it saying perhaps it is grief:
I really agree with Jan. I had much heartache and pain the first chunk of my life and have lived the reprocussions of it the rest of my life. When I asked my counselor last year why, when I think for sure that I have forgiven someone and am fine with it, why then will it come back to me at a later time and hurt all over again?? I feel like a failure at forgiveness when this happens, because many Christians say that you need to forgive and forget, and that if you didn’t forget, then you haven’t forgiven.
My counselor then told me something that has helped me tremendously…(let’s see if I can repeat it and have it make sense).
She reminded me that it is GOD that is capable of removing our sins from us as far as the east is from the west…..but that we are still human with human hearts and human minds, and our minds are not capable of forgeting stored information that has had such an effect on us. When someone has sinned against us, a wound is placed on us, and sometimes that woiund goes very deep. When we forgive, as God wants us to, it is for our good ( and the offender’s) and the forgiveness goes towards healing the wound, like an ointment, or a scab. We have forgiven and we feel fine, but if the wound is deeper than surface, there is deeper healing that needs to happen.
In the Healer’s perfect timing He will allow that you to remember the wound because He desires to bring you to a place of deeper healing……and you forgive again, and He gives another time of rest for the wound….until it is time for deeper healing to happen once again. He is a gentle, patience, and faithful Healer…..and someday, after many applications of the ointment, the wound will be totally healed. Perhaps another reason why He tells to forgive seven times seventy times.